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That's Not Finger Food! Pro-Reformer Bites Off 65-Year-Old's Pinky At Health Rally
Ben Frumin | September 3, 2009, 8:40AM
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A KTLA report from a health care rally near Los Angeles last night may not include gun-toting protesters, but it does describe another sort of weapon: teeth. As in, a pro-reform protester used his teeth to bite off the finger of an anti-reformer.
According to KTLA, a group of anti-health care reform protesters set up across the street from about 100 pro-reform demonstrators at a MoveOn.org-sponsored rally. Apparently, a pro-reformer walking through the anti-reform group to join the rest of his gang got into an altercation with a 65-year-old man who was on the anti-health care team.
What happened next is not entirely clear. The initial report from KTLA, citing an unnamed witness, said the man who got his finger bitten off was walking through the anti-reform group to get to the pro-reform side and punched someone from the anti-reform side, who responded by biting off the pro-reformer's pinky.
But blogging at DrumsNWhistles, Karoli, who says she was at the rally, said it was the anti-reformer who punched the pro-reformer: "He punched him in the face, knocked him to the ground" The pro-reformer got up, and there was a scuffle. When it broke up, the pro-reformer crossed the street and joined his compatriots.
Karoli writes: "When he gets to our side, he tells a story in one sentence: 'He punched me hard, straight in the face, so I bit his finger off.'"
KTLA has also updated its report, citing Karoli.
Either way, Karoli warns: "Don't be fooled by reports ginning up sympathy for that 65-year old guy or worse yet, reports characterizing him as a senior citizen. He was aggressive and ready to mix it up."
KTLA also says "the man took his finger and walked to Los Robles hospital for treatment."
Late Update: Eric Ingemunson at RedCounty has more details from the rally. After speaking to several eyewitnesses, Ingemunson says the finger-biter apparently went nose-to-nose with the anti-reformer "and sneered, 'You're an idiot.'"
At that point, I'm told the victim either swung at or pushed his assailant's face away with an open hand, and his finger entered his mouth."It was a defensive strike," said Scott Bush, who witnessed the altercation. He said the assailant approached him in an unpredictable and threatening manner.
The MoveOn.org protester then allegedly bit off the finger up to the first knuckle, and spat it into the street where it was recovered by Bush.
"I picked it up and it had a piece of gravel stuck on it," he said. Bush rushed it to the hospital.
The pro-reformer then reportedly split the scene by "swaggering" before Sheriffs deputies could find him.
Photos of the protest and a blurry shot of the swaggering suspect at the bottom of Ingemunson's post.
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dudeguy
September 3, 2009 9:11 AM
Wonder if the 65-year-old paid for the treatment with Medicare.
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theone718
September 3, 2009 9:15 AM in reply to dudeguy
WOW. I was JUST about to type that EXACT sentence.
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nonsequitur
September 3, 2009 9:23 AM in reply to dudeguy
Medicare would not pay for something covered under third party liability.
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LFC
September 3, 2009 9:38 AM in reply to nonsequitur
Neither do private insurers. I have a friend whose 2-year old fell down in the daycare playground, and needed stitches. The health insurance company won't pay because they see daycare as having liability because, as we all know, it's SOOOOOO unusual for a child to fall down.
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TheraP
September 3, 2009 1:10 PM in reply to nonsequitur
Medicare just pays. It doesn't investigate.
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admiralmpj
September 3, 2009 12:41 PM in reply to dudeguy
The KTLA story says he did have Medicare.
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Donal
September 3, 2009 9:16 AM
This is bad enough, but could just as easily have been a fatal shooting.
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tonigo
September 3, 2009 9:20 AM in reply to Donal
Only a matter of time really.
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JEP07
September 3, 2009 12:02 PM in reply to tonigo
This may sound callous, but I'd wager the odds in the London betting parlors are about 1000 to 1 that the shooter will be from the anti-reform side of the street.
I Josh's feature reader post today http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/09/mainstreaming_the_crazy.php
the reader laments that no one on the left is responding to the preponderance of ridiculii, I think this finger-biting debacle shows no one on the left or in the center can change this, it will take the likes of McCain and Palin to turn to their rabid followers and convince them to stand down.
Anything we might say here, or anywhere the crazies consider left of their far right center, will only add fuel to the fire.
Was my blog post of a couple days ago, (WHERE ARE THE REPUBLICANS with enough courage to talk this lunacy down?)
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/jep07/2009/08/where-are-the-republicans-with.php
may have been too vague? I said then, as I am saying now, any advice from the center and the left are anathema to these baggers, the Republicans are the only ones who can stop this..
Instead, they seem to be encouraging it or silently abiding it.
WE can't change this, it has to be changed by people the wingnuts trust. I sympathize with everyone who is ready to stop laughing about the inanity of it and start "doing something" about it, but my point is, the people we are speaking ov despise us, Obama, and everything they consider left of Limbaugh.
It will take leadership from the Republicans and the right wing to bring this boil back down to a simmer.
All we can do is stand aside and watch and hope their leaders can control them.
We sure can't. All we do is inspire them to violence.
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dustbunny44
September 3, 2009 10:44 AM in reply to Donal
In which case the irony of an anti-reformer using medicare would have been completely lost. Truly a tragedy.
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Matthew Saroff
September 3, 2009 11:37 AM in reply to Donal
To quote Freddie Dalton Thompson, "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it."
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regnad
September 3, 2009 9:21 AM
The first paragraph says that the pro guy bit the anti guy, but the third paragraph has it the other way around.
Which is it?
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TBender
September 3, 2009 9:27 AM in reply to regnad
I think that's part of the confusion overall.
Does the 2nd Amendment say anything about bare teeth?
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johnadams
September 3, 2009 10:06 AM in reply to TBender
The 2d amendment says you can bear arms, not bare teeth, silly.
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Fred Sanford
September 3, 2009 9:39 AM
I had no idea Mike Tyson felt so strongly about health care reform.
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Cal Gal
September 3, 2009 1:06 PM in reply to Fred Sanford
LOL
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LarsThorwald
September 3, 2009 9:41 AM
Wait, was it the pro-reformer or the anti-reformer who bit off the finger? This is important, because I need to know which complete fucking idiot I am supposed to be rooting for here.
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bvd
September 3, 2009 9:44 AM
This health care reform debate truly is a nail-biter.
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rebop
September 3, 2009 9:46 AM
Brings new meaning to the phrase "talk to the hand."
Seriously though, this is awful. I worry that this is not the last or worst confrontation we will see.
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VexSmith
September 3, 2009 10:00 AM in reply to rebop
Nothing on the radio commuting in today on this. I'm not buying it.
That's a heck of a bite. My teeth couldn't handle it. Back to work but there's something fishy...
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rebop
September 3, 2009 10:26 AM in reply to VexSmith
Yeah, I want to know more. I would imagine it's pretty darned hard to bite someone's finger off, although I do not know this from experience.
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FlownOver
September 3, 2009 11:05 AM in reply to rebop
Maybe this was Zombie Jerry Garcia, just trying to mess with our minds – again.
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slb
September 3, 2009 1:19 PM in reply to VexSmith
That was my reaction, too. You'd need teeth like Cujo. And is that supposed to be a picture of the guy's hand? Why isn't it bandaged? Why isn't there any swelling? Why does it look like his finger was amputated some time ago?
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tmccarthy0
September 3, 2009 9:55 AM
Enough, this has got to stop. This cannot be who we are, it is?
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LarsThorwald
September 3, 2009 10:17 AM in reply to tmccarthy0
It's a great country. Isn't it?
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tmccarthy0
September 3, 2009 10:31 AM in reply to LarsThorwald
Quite civilized.
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tokin librul
September 3, 2009 11:48 AM in reply to tmccarthy0
Who "We" Are:
A country which holds the health of its citizens hostage against the wealth of its elites.
A country which blithely sends un-manned drones to attack gatherings of civilians half-way around the world, and accepts "innocent" casualties up to 30 in number without any compunction.
A country which STILL tortures people it detained ILLEGALLY.
A country which nods and winks at the execution of innocent, wrongly convicted persons.
This IS what "WE" are...
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Ingiro
September 3, 2009 9:56 AM
Sounds like a pre-existing condition to me.
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jbobzilla
September 3, 2009 10:05 AM
Sounds fishy. I would think it would be pretty hard to bite off a finger. You know, bone, cartilage and what not.
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mikedrevguy
September 3, 2009 10:10 AM
I think we've got one surely with skin in the game, now.
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markg8
September 3, 2009 10:11 AM
I think when I'm standing out in front my Republican congresswoman's office this evening with our big banner that says "HONK FOR HEALTH CARE REFORM" and some wingnut drives by and yells something idiotic or flips me off instead of blowing kisses to them I'll just chomp my teeth instead.
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GTFOOH
September 3, 2009 10:16 AM
That's one less finger Obama will be getting!
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blairza
September 3, 2009 10:28 AM
Obviously the assailant has Great Private Dental Insurance.
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alkali
September 3, 2009 10:32 AM
Is the picture used here a picture of the injured person's actual hand? If not (and I assume it is not), why is it there?
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NuttyProf
September 3, 2009 10:37 AM in reply to alkali
lousy image
unformed story
come on tpm do better
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worthy9
September 3, 2009 12:17 PM in reply to NuttyProf
C'mon guys. They're trying to bring us stuff asap. TPM is "breaking news and analysis" not just "analysis".
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anticontrarian
September 3, 2009 10:39 AM
Since we don't know who the guy is, can we call him Noam Chompsky?
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GTFOOH
September 3, 2009 12:27 PM in reply to anticontrarian
I like Mr. Hand better!
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Cleo
September 3, 2009 10:42 AM
This photo is faked. You can clearly tell that this is a shadow, not the pinky missing.
It was an anti-health reformer who started it. Where did you get this article? Looks like Politico propaganda to me.
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slb
September 3, 2009 1:25 PM in reply to Cleo
Hmmm, you may be right. I had wondered about the puckering of the skin at the base of the pinkie. Turns out that's exactly what the skin of my hand does when you pull the little finger back behind the rest of them...
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saulgoodman
September 3, 2009 10:50 AM
I think this is some kind of propaganda attempt to counter this story from Florida from the day before:
Healthcare reform advocate punched by opponent at Nelson event
According to that story, an anti-reform protester punched a 65 year old pro-reform protester in the face.
This seems to me like a pretty blatant response to either spin or drown out that (overlooked) story.
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saulgoodman
September 3, 2009 10:51 AM
Damn. Here's the link to the Florida story:
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2009/09/healthcare-reform-advocate-punched-by-opponent-at-nelson-event.html
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Connor
September 3, 2009 10:54 AM
There's something very 'Walter Sobchak' about it. Perhaps the 65 year-old was a nihilist?
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FlownOver
September 3, 2009 11:06 AM
Alternate theory:
Frodo lives!
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Richardxx
September 3, 2009 11:10 AM
I don't buy that picture as accurate. It looks like a bad photoshop job.
But even if the story is true, what did the anti-reformer have his finger in the other guys mouth for in the first place? He shouldn't have had his hand anywhere close to where it could get bitten. If the story is true, then it's a pretty clear case of self-defense. If anyone puts their hand that close to my face and eyes, I'll stop them. That's assault and it's self defense.
Oh, wait. I forgot the special rule. For a Republican to hit someone is free speech, of course. Not for a Democrat, just for a Republican. It's right there in the first amendment and reemphasized in the second.
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Linda in Maryland
September 3, 2009 11:41 AM
For God's sake, give up the sensationalism. I love TPM but aren't you falling into the media idiocy of focusing on the screaming, shouting, weirdness instead of the real conversations going on about policy? In education, we identify bad behavior and put most of our energies on praising, modeling good behaviors that lead to learning. I think it's time the media did the same.
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witty1
September 3, 2009 12:44 PM
"One should keep one's fingers out of the mouth of those he is arguing with.
Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 09/03/09 - 10:00 AM"
Single best comment on the link.
Like I tell my sons, "keep your DAMN HANDS off of other people!"
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Cal Gal
September 3, 2009 1:10 PM
Who is KTLA and why are they making up stuff like this?
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The Reluctant Conspiracy Theorist
September 3, 2009 3:33 PM
You really should change your label from anti-reform-er to anti-obamacare-er.
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ddm7
September 4, 2009 7:43 AM
It's amazing how the liberal media shapes this story. The guy was a moveon.orger who crossed the street to confront the 65 year old. There were plenty of witnesses that reported this to the police. If you have ever been approached by someone you have the right to defend yourself if you feel threatened so the 65 year old pushed the other man away. Seems logical to ask, why was the Obama supporter come across the street in the first place? Obviously to cause trouble. Why did he run off when he bit the guys finger off, if he did nothing wrong? They guy who had his finger bitten off has been on the news, not afraid to tell his story. Where is this other guy if his actions were so justified?
Funny how liberals preach peace, but when you talk with them they always get so angry and resort to violence and degrading people because things arn't "fair".
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