Landrieu And Dean Duel On Hardball

Dean = ass

Whats not for profit option is Landrieu talking about????

As is, this deserves a NO vote. This is not half a loaf. It's a full meal for insurance companies.

I've been a fan of Dean's since 2004, and I still think the party is misguided not to adopt his 50 state strategy wholesale. But he's in teabagger territory on this one.

Community rating and preexisting conditions alone are worth passing this bill. And, whatever you think of its implications for freedom, to pretend the mandate won't drive down premiums is ostrich behavior.

It is amazing to read comments insulting Dean's position from people who just days ago were writing about how horrible this bill is. It seems that a talking point has come out from the DNC whereby everyone is supposed to act like this bill is just plain awesome, even though everyone knows it is a total turd, as evidenced by its pathetic poll numbers. The approval for this bill is about the same as Bush's approval ratings when he left office.

I'm with Howard. Landrieu is one of the least credible people to be discussing this issue. About a month ago she didn't even know what the public option was. If they want to ram this through, as I think they will, don't call it reform and don't expect progressives to fall in line and start cheering about this piece of crap. The best thing that can happen now is that they drop the individual mandate, then I'll shut up and fight for real reform in 2010, 2012 and so on. Don't give me this BS about progressives not getting everything they want in this bill, we didn't get ANYTHING we want in this bill. As usual, when push comes to shove, progressives are expected to roll over so the party elders can rub our tummies and tell us what good boys we are. No more. I'm a Democrat, I will always vote Democrat, but if this is the change we can expect for all the work we put in, I will put my 400 volunteer hours and cash into Moveon. That's my rant for the day. Now I'm going to take my ball and go play my other progrssive friends. " Wait for me Howard, I'm on my way."

Landrieu is a corporate jackass who lacks a conscious. Why do assholes like her even call themselves a democrat?

I am glad Dean is being frank and calling out the senate for their circus.

Kill the mandate! Get the reforms we can get without it.

Save the mandate to use to negotiate for future changes.

Without a public choice the health insurance monopolies would just be getting financially rewarded for their abuses...that's too much like Wall Street Bonuses for bailed out companies.

Who thought it was a good idea for Pay-to-Play Landrieu to go on TV representing the views of Democratic Senators?

She is unique among her colleagues for having withheld her support until after a private meeting with Reid and $100 million of taxpayer giveaways to her state!

Dean should've asked her: "Mary, if we strip the $100 mil to Louisiana from the bill, will you still vote for it?"

Unbelievable...

Did Landrieu really say "In my state alone, one million people that do not have insurance today will have health care coverage. That's something to fight for."

If that's true, why isn't she fighting for health care reform? Why is she willing to accept whatever Lieberman is willing to concede?

Why does she want to fight for less, rather than more, for the people of her state?

Let's not forget that the senate bill, whatever it is, once passed, has to be reconciled with the House bill, which does include a weak public option, but also makes it impossible to get an abortion again except by paying the full cost for it. I don't believe any of us could possibly predict what the final combined bill will look like. What I do think we know for sure is that the Senate bill would fail in the House, and the House bill did fail in the Senate. I suspect what will result from all of this is a cosmetic bill that covers 2000 pages with philosophy, but actually does nothing but require all of us to pay whatever the health insurance parasites ask for. It will be praised to the Heavens by Obama as an historic moment.

It does feel like many people above are cheerleading this bill because the Party is sending messages that it's time to unite. But, to simplify the matter, progressives were sold down the river here to Big Insurance and Big Health. If we don't stand up now, when will we fight for real liberal values?

The bigger issue is that corporate interests still have their tentacles wrapped firmly around the institutions of power. Obama campaigned on the premise that he would stand up to special interests. Now, that's boilerplate and all politicians parrot the line that they're going to "fight special interests." Obama seemed particularly credible. What is clear now is that he's not going to stand up for true progressive principles. If we don't want 3-7 more years of this, progressives need to speak up and speak up LOUDLY.

Here's an interview Olbermann had with former Cigna PR man Wendell Potter tonight -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOe8zpHWgio&feature=player_embedded

It's a bad bill. It would force Americans by mandate to buy from private, for profit companies. Force Americans by mandate to pay $20M to CEO's, to pay for lobbyists that work against their interest, pay dividends to stock holders. You CAN'T have a mandate with out a government run non-profit option.

This is dance-in-the-streets good for insurance companies.

Mary Landrieu has had government healthcare all of her life except for 2 yrs post college. She has no freaking clue what it is to be without insurance. Fuck her and her buddy Joe Lieberprick. Landrieu campaigned for Lieberprick after he lost the primary. Landrieu is supporting Lieberprick even after he refused to investigate the contract ripoffs during Katrina. Crooks of a feather and all that.

Landrieu=Whore

Dean: "If we were Republicans this bill would be done."

Because if we were Republicans, we wouldn't be sitting around in existential angst when our ideal visions meet politics. We wouldn't be a circular firing squad.

Didn't Dean say he wanted to recruit guys with confederate flags on their bumper stickers? What happened to those days?

I'm guessing that most of the people who are complaining on this blog were probably John Edwards supporters. They want the red meat, and I recall that they liked him because he was "a fighter." But it turns out, he was more of a lover.

That would have gone well.

I'm starting to fear that the true believers in the Democratic Party would rather enjoy pure outrage with a President Palin than support a President Obama who doesn't live up to all of their dreams.

I respond to the comments upthread along the lines of, "This is politics. Be patient. Be pragmatic. Throwing a tantrum because you didn't get your way is immature."

However, that logic presumes the legislative system is functioning as it should be, as it was designed to function. It is not.

Let me repeat. It is NOT.

Congress and the President do not answer to their constituents; they obey the lobbyists and corporations that finance their campaigns. See, e.g., Max Baucus and the insurance lobby vs the people of Montana. Joe Lieberman is a useful tool [double entrendre intended] because his playing the bad cop lets Reid, Baucus and Rahm off the hook.

It's taken 50-60 years for corporate corruption to become this deeply embedded in our system. I am reminded of my favorite quote from another good Doctor:

"How many more of these goddam elections are we going to have to write off as lame but 'regrettably necessary' holding actions? And how many more of these stinking double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils? I have been through three presidential elections now, but it hwas been twelve years since I could look at a ballot and see a name I wanted to vote for." -- H. S. Thompson

I was glad Obama was nominated because I not only wanted to beat Bush, I wanted to vote for something, someone. I was hoping the last election would be different, that Obama would be different. My first disappointment came when he appointed Rahm Emmanuel Chief of Staff. The second came with appointing Kaine to the DNC and the DNC's move away from the 50-state strategy.

I am pragmatic enough to realize that the even the current crop of spineless, do-nothing, fat-cat Democrats are preferable by far to the Republicans; and that the only thing on earth that could possibly be worse than the Bush/Cheney years would be a tea party insurgency led by Palin, Bachmann and their ilk.

However, I have been waiting for 37 years for the Democratic party to live up to the promise of Franklin Roosevelt, Bobby Kennedy, Gene McCarthy, and George McGovern. Even Hubert H. Humphrey.

This is not the party of 37 years ago. This is a party that has been beaten into submission by Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Rush Limbaugh, and its corporate masters. This is a party that has allowed Limbaugh to use the word "socialism" as a weapon and not responded.

Dean 2012! Where do I send my contribution?

So insuring a million Louisianians is a big huge sellout...

The lack if logic around here these days is staggering.

"There are things I don't like about the bill, but this is the closest we've come in 40 years to doing something good for the American people, and we shouldn't get weak-kneed at this moment."

Right, Mary, and you're just an icon of courage and principle yourself. It takes a lot of guts, I'm sure, to be such a conspicuous shill for insurance companies. Weren't you the one who wasn't going to vote for cloture until she got a huge gift to the state of Louisiana written into the legislation?

As former chairman of the Democratic Party, Dean knows that this sellout is going to DESTROY the party. Because all most Americans are going to see is a massive bailout of the insurance industry combined with continuing massive increases in their own premiums - because there is no competition. And anyone who chooses not to go along with this fraud is going to be harassed by the government and fined.

Obama has chosen to destroy the party so that he can claim to have passed "historic health care reform." But his poll numbers are going to continue to tank because his policies and programs don't cut the mustard, any more than Bush's did.

Frankly, I would assert that 95% of those posting here (on both sides of the debate) don't know half as much as they should, and act like they know twice as much as they actually do. I share some deep-seeded mistrust of this bill, knowing how corporate interests have a way of corrupting nearly everything that passes through the halls of congress. On the other hand, this is our chance to get a foot in the door. Those who suggest we wait until the next legislative session seem to miss the point that this congress affords the best chance of the best bill, as congress is likely to revert to the mean a bit next year, and Obama's political clout is fading. The fact is, this legislation isn't finished yet, and, we won't know if it lowers costs or not for a long time... until it goes into effect.

That said, I am not suggesting, that we just quiet down, and see what happens. Quite the opposite. I applaud Dean and all those here who perceive weaknesses in this bill and are screaming to make it better. I would only suggest we not focus on the means (public option) but the ends (lower costs so that insurance is affordable to all those we're forcing to buy it). If the public option is dead, so be it. The next question is, what other ways are costs going to be kept in check so that this doesn't become a big fat giveaway to the insurance companies, and then demand an answer to that question from our representatives.