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Bayh: Dems Are In Denial About Massachusetts Senate Race

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Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN) told ABC News that the Democratic Party cannot ignore the lessons of the Massachusetts special Senate election unless it wants to be lead to "even further catastrophe."

The race to fill the late Ted Kennedy's Senate seat has become hotly contested in recent weeks, even though the Democratic candidate, Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley, enjoyed double digit polling leads up until the middle of December. Republican candidate Scott Brown has called the race a referendum on health care reform and has promised to be the 41st vote to block cloture on the landmark legislation if he's voted into office.

The lesson, according to Bayh, is that the Democrats have pushed their agenda too far to the left and have, in the process alienated independent voters.

"It's why moderates and independents even in a state as Democratic as Massachusetts just aren't buying our message," Bayh told ABC. "They just don't believe the answers we are currently proposing are solving their problems."

The senator also said he thinks the Democrats will be in denial about a potential Coakley loss. "If you lose Massachusetts and that's not a wake-up call, there's no hope of waking up," he said.

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January 19, 2010 7:13 PM   

Just like Evan Bayh has been in denial about that big (D) beside his name all these years.

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January 19, 2010 7:14 PM   

(Why was this on the front page?)

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January 19, 2010 7:16 PM    in reply to littlenomad

Because they think it will piss us off, causing us to click on it. We're both here, so I guess they were right.

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January 19, 2010 7:20 PM   

I have officially lost respect for Evan Bayh.

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January 19, 2010 8:07 PM    in reply to Tom K.

Took you this long?

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January 19, 2010 7:27 PM   

Enough of these folks. Bayh can start the Indiana chapter of Connecticut for Lieberman. Or Indiana for Lieberman or Connecticut for Bayh. Whatever.

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January 19, 2010 7:29 PM   

If Evan Bayh really believes his own bullshit then Democrats are going to face a catastrophe in November.

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January 19, 2010 7:33 PM   

Okay, I know I'll take a beating for this, but I actually agree with the message he's sending(the messenger still sucks). Both sides have lost sight of the middle ground on any issue out of fear of giving the other side a political victory.
Left and right have had their shot at policies and both have left flaws, so why not find what works best within both models.

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January 19, 2010 7:45 PM    in reply to btbradley86

The left has never had a shot, because Progressives never attain power. The Dumbocrats currently in power are Republicrats.

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January 19, 2010 7:52 PM    in reply to btbradley86

+1

Whoever articulates a message that is most palatable to the middle is who ultimately wins.

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January 19, 2010 8:13 PM    in reply to btbradley86

To be frank, this sort of statement strikes me as mostly meaningless mush. As far as I can tell, Democratic policy has been nothing but incrementalist, middle of the road and too weak by half since the beginning of the last year. The notion that they have governed too far to the left is, like most of what clowns like Bayh have to say, just a vague accusation by a spineless politician that has no connection to reality.

But you know what, I have an open mind and am ready to be convinced. What's your evidence (or Bayh's) of this crazy far left governance that Dems have been pushing so hard. What great Republican ideas have dems so roundly rejected in "fear of giving the other side a political victory?" What more should they give up on health care or stimulus or indeed any policy so that they would be more centered in the middle of the road with respect to your estimation?

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January 19, 2010 8:50 PM    in reply to allastair

"...What more should they give up on health care or stimulus or indeed any policy so that they would be more centered in the middle of the road with respect to your estimation?"

A fair question.

"According to the 2008 exit poll results, liberals constituted 22% of the electorate, and 89% of American liberals favored the candidate of the Democratic Party."

"The Pew Research Center has stated that conservative Democrats represent 15% of registered voters and 14% of the general electorate."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)

"Polls over the last two years have found that 20% to 34% percent of Americans self-identify as Republicans."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)

Thus, we are looking at anywhere from 44 to 58 per cent of our population who don't identify with either the Republicans or Democrats. No doubt a percentage of that group has either no interest or is clueless about politics. However, that's still a significant chunk of the electorate.

Based on these numbers, the "true progressives" might represent 10 to 15 per cent of the electorate. By any measure, that's not enough people to push legislation that Republicans and Independents are opposed to. Which basically means, Dems have no choice but to go for the middle and hope the left doesn't get too alienated. Any other approach to legislation that alienates the middle (you know Republicans are going to be opposed from the get go) is DOA.

By your definition, this is a mushy approach to politics, and I agree. But it's the only approach that has any chance of working. As others have pointed out, our Demographics are slowly changing. Which hopefully means we'll see the "liberal" numbers increasing over time. But that's another story and doesn't effect the balance that exists today.

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January 19, 2010 9:04 PM    in reply to Homefries

Again, I am asking for specifics. You say Dems should go for the middle. I say that is exactly what they have done. Everything they have done, on every single policy initiative has been defined by a profoundly moderate and incrementalist approach. They pushed for a health care bill which, for teh vast majority of people, will change almost nothing. They created a stimulus package which was far short of what was needed and included 100s of billions in tax cuts which were conceded to Republicans at the cost of both more aid to States and more stimulative job packages. What part of their agenda has been far left? What part of their agenda, if changed, would convince you that they were governing from the middle of the road? This really should not be a difficult question to answer if they really have been as radically left as you and Bayh seem to believe. So try again.

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January 19, 2010 10:28 PM    in reply to allastair

My argument is that the battle is for the support of the middle. Articulating a message that describes legislation in terms that the middle will find acceptable is part of that battle. I'm not defending Bayh or accusing anyone of anything, I'm describing the playing field.

"Politics ain't beanbag".

You're asking for specifics? You seem profoundly disappointed that pragmatic arguments and reasonable proposals have apparently fallen on deaf ears. My question to you. Do you really expect the other side to play fair? They're going to use every trick in the book to derail what they don't like. Bayh's message might be personally repugnant to you, but his viewpoint is what a lot of Americans genuinely fear. That doesn't make it right, of course, that's just the way it is. It's human nature.

We need to be better at articulating our message.

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January 19, 2010 11:00 PM    in reply to Homefries

Ok. This conversation is confused because I was responding to btbradley who was explicitly defending Bayh's statement (and with which you initially claimed agreement) stating that, indeed, Democratic policies have failed to seek a middle ground. That is precisely the statement for which I am seeking a defense because as far as I can tell it seems entirely unmoored from reality. Your somewhat bizarre and entirely incorrect attempts to read my mind and my mood aside, the notion that politicians seeking election need to sell their ideas to moderates is rather obvious and not something that anyone o Earth actually disagrees with. That doesn't, in any way, describe what Bayh or btbradley is saying. They have both made an argument that the failure is not one of message but of policy. Do you agree what that statement or not and if yes, then what is your (or Bayh's or btbradley's) evidence of said radicalism?

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January 19, 2010 11:27 PM    in reply to allastair

I think we are talking apples and oranges. The reality is Demos have made sincere efforts to meet the Republicans half way. The perception is--with a significant chunk of the population--we haven't. The Republicans are in control of the narrative. Bayh is simply a messenger of bad news playing to his constituency.

Unfortunately, perception trumps reality. Human cognition 101.

Have a nice day. Goodbye.

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January 19, 2010 11:52 PM    in reply to Homefries

Unfortunately, perception trumps reality. Human cognition 101.

Yes. This is human cognition 101. That is why it is also something that every politician and likely everyone on this board understands. I am not sure why you feel it necessary to tell us any of this because aside from it being a bone simple and obvious point, it also has exactly nothing to do with Bayh's statement who was explicitly making an argument not about misperceptions but about perceptions being shaped by actual "far left" policies. One either agrees with him that Dem policies have been far left or they don't. btbradley seems to agree. You indicated at one point that you agree with btbradley's agreement. I take it from your later statements that you are not actually agreeing with either of their statements.

So, right back at you on having a nice day.

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January 20, 2010 11:34 AM    in reply to allastair

Enjoy pounding that argument back into the minority.

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January 20, 2010 12:26 PM    in reply to btbradley86

Pounding what argument? What argument am I making. I have asked you to defend your statement that the Dems have governed from the left. I have asked you to provide evidence of said governance. You have responded with a pithy non-sequitur. If you can't defend your statement than just say so.

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January 20, 2010 6:26 AM    in reply to allastair

Well, allastair, you are clearly in denial. The country is not left of center. They right of center. And the country woke up to whom Obama really is. Right I even believe we are going to vote Boxer out of office in California. We do not like given USA citizen rights to terrorists, we prefer they are waterboarded so that we can get information from them! Most people are normal people allastair, they do not think LEFT.

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January 19, 2010 8:24 PM    in reply to btbradley86

I don't believe Obama has lost sight of the middle ground at all. Most progressives think he's too far to the right

Too far to the left? We won an election based on change - change is health care reform, change is helping the middle class, change is fighting for better education and clean and sustainable energy. This is too far to the left?

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slb

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January 19, 2010 8:35 PM    in reply to btbradley86

And just how do you propose doing that, hmmm? No matter how far the Democrats moved the provisions in the health care bill to the right, Republicans flat-out refused to vote for it. They're not going to vote for a middle-of-the-road health care bill. The one the Senate ended up with is to the right of what any objective person would call to the middle of the issue, and they don't want it. They wouldn't vote for the bill even if you let them write it. Because they don't want Obama or the Democrats to get any credit for it whatsoever.

Their only objective is to defeat Democrats. Period, end of sentence.

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January 19, 2010 7:36 PM   

this guy is a moron of epic proportions. What a ding dong...

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January 19, 2010 7:44 PM   

That's right Evan. And that lesson is to stop listening Republicrats like yourself, you hack.

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January 19, 2010 8:10 PM   

here's what boggles my mind:

republicans explicitly state time and time and time again that they are going to block all progress on anything that could remotely benefit americans ... unless it involves shooting brown people thousands of miles away. they say they are going to kill everything that obama campaigned on, except for the part about killing brown people thousands of miles away. they say these things EXPLICITLY.

and now, americans are angry at DEMOCRATS. WHAT. THE. FUCK. is our country that fucking stupid, collectively speaking?

as a reminder, in the house, where there is no filibuster, dems passed HCR, with ONE republican vote (from a totally blue district, mind you). ONE. the game was the same in the house, but since there isn't a mechanism by which republicans could stop things that could remotely help americans, the house passed it. it was in the senate, where republicans could/can resort to using a filibuster, that they can and have and will effectively kill(ed) anything that could remotely help americans. but it's the DEMOCRATS who suck, and at whom americans are angry.

i just don't get it. i really don't get it.

it's like this: if your loved one were drowning in a pond, and a Good Samaritan was trying to dive in to help them, but a Malicious Samaritan was holding the Good Samaritan back so he couldn't dive in, it's like you getting pissed at the Good Samaritan, instead of getting pissed at the Malicious Samaritan.

completely fucking stupid.

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slb

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January 19, 2010 8:31 PM    in reply to nova voter

Agreed. But we have to do a better job of making that the narrative, condemning Republicans as unpatriotic obstructionists, more interested in trying to score political points for their party than in doing good for the country.

That's one reason it used to drive me crazy for people to be talking about a "filibuster-proof" majority in the Senate. We never had that, because no Republican in the current Senate is or was ever likely to vote with the Democrats for cloture, Lieberman was always a question mark, and other conservative Democrats were not a guaranteed vote, either.

We need more Alan Graysons on the talk show circuit, people who don't mind getting a little down and dirty.

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January 20, 2010 12:29 AM    in reply to slb

More Graysons, and for crissakes hire an established marketing firm and come up with a national ad campaign.

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January 19, 2010 8:50 PM    in reply to nova voter

I completely agree, nova voter. And yeah, PLEASE show me this "far-left" governance. What a bunch of crap. God, I hate Evan Bayh. I wouldn't mind losing seats in Congressional elections if we really HAD passed some even half-left legislation. Instead, we're struggling to save an over-compromised, corporate-centrist bill, and wussy DINOs like Bayh are sounding like they might as well be Fox news analysts.

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des

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January 19, 2010 8:42 PM   

By taking this tack Sen. Bayh is hoping that he won't be placed into any position where he has to make a choice between his constituents and his contributors. As a resident and voter in Indiana, I know exactly which side he'll choose - and it's not mine.
Regarding the state of the Senatorial campaign in Massachusetts: it certainly isn't a sign of the Democratic Party being too far to the "left" - rather, it's a sign of Coakley's sense of entitlement/complascency; had she actually gone out and campaigned after winning the nomination, Brown would be facing a double-digit loss. Instead, a senatorial seat that should have been, literally, an automatic retention, has become a "referendum" on HCIR and President Obama!
DNC rules, indeed! (a noun, not a verb)

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January 19, 2010 8:42 PM   

Thank goodness Obama did not pick Evan as his VP!

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January 19, 2010 8:42 PM   

I'm just curious if Mr. Bayh can explain exactly when giving billions to Wall St. and escalating foreign wars became left-wing policies.

Anecdotal, but all the Democrats who voted for Brown that I talked to said they voted for him because of the bailouts of banks and auto manufacturers, the failure to get out of Iraq, and the failure to jumpstart the economy (which would require a bigger, faster injection of federal dollars). Basically they voted for Brown because Obama hasn't been liberal enough. Strange, yes, but when you're voting with emotion and lodging a protest vote, I guess you don't think about things like that.

If the Democrats listen to Bayh's moronic "advice," they may as well just give up their majority right now.

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January 19, 2010 10:01 PM    in reply to KdNicewanger

Well then I'd say that the Democrats you talked to were really fucking stupid. Protest vote??!! So they vote for someone who's going to set back their chosen agenda-the agenda that they think Obama should be following?!

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January 19, 2010 8:51 PM   

Evan Bayh is all about protecting his own seat.

Oh, and his wife's seats on every Insurance company's board.

With Dems like these, who needs Republicans?

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January 20, 2010 12:52 AM    in reply to jsdc007

That's correct. Several other Dem Senators have been doing the same thing. Too worried about elections to govern.

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January 19, 2010 8:54 PM   

This is why FOX matters. They inundate the vacuum with their talking points and eventually the message sinks in.

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January 19, 2010 10:23 PM    in reply to Saladin

It's not just Fox, it's the entire concept of liberal media which is both demonstrably false, and widely accepted. Yay consolidation ...

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January 19, 2010 8:54 PM   

yep, evan, coakley's (likely) defeat is evidence that a state which supports its own health care reform efforts (by 79%!) which are by any measure significantly more progressive than the watered-down bag of piss on offer in washington has roundly decided that the dems have just gone too far to the left.

shut. the. fuck. up.

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January 19, 2010 9:43 PM   

Where is this left part of the agenda, and how come I haven't seen it? Bayh and Lieberman singing the same tune isn't much of a surprise. If the Democrats were to ever behave like Democrats they'd both be out on their whiny right wing asses.

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January 19, 2010 9:58 PM   

This is one of the first people barry wanted as a VP, It would have been President bluedog squared. When I hear bayh I'm hearing the President. Starting with his FISA vote through the last year, the President, while better than all of the republicans combined still leaves a lot to be desired and a lot of faith to recover. 'Change you believe in ' will be the scarcastic bumper sticker of the next election.

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January 19, 2010 11:33 PM   

After the bucket of shit that got tossed in face face of all progressives a year ago, this turn of events is truly poetic justice. One hopes that Mr. and Mrs. Obama do not now anticipate a vacation on the Vineyard this summer. They can go to Plains, instead, commiserate with Billy's brother, open a hardware store and never return north.

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January 20, 2010 6:09 AM   

WOW, from what the comments I am reading here this must be quite a bit of left of center site. Even the comments on the Boston Globe (clearly a left of center organization) had quite a bit of POSITIVE comments, that is, they see what the left is all about: a big spending, big government socialist movement. The left misread the results of the last elections. People were upset due to a bad economy. Bush was not a fiscally conservative president and what does Obama do? He comes in does things worst than Bush. And the common people does not stand for terrorists haven US citizen rights, they rather waterboard terrorists than to try them in regular courtroom.

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January 20, 2010 6:18 AM   

Well, well, well, I actually had read few comments! The people in this side ARE IN DENIAL BIG TIME! They do not even know of the Gallup poll that shows the ideology of the American people as follows: 40% conservative, 20% liberal and 40% moderate. The left is clearly a minority but they think they are a majority.

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January 20, 2010 7:05 AM   

It's whores like Bayh that are going to cause the Dem. losses. It's time for a purge of the party. The party needs to be an opposition party not Repug lite.

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January 20, 2010 1:13 PM    in reply to par4

hahahhahahahahahahhahhahahhahaha. watching marxists argue among themselves is like watching little girls argue. you have been wrong all along, virginia, new jersey, and mass. have all gone against you. what ever will you do when the second coming of jimmy carter is out of work in 2012?

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March 12, 2010 6:36 AM   

progressives never attain power
kamagra m65

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