Arizona To Obama: Show Us Your Birth Certificate!

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Tom

February 24, 2010 11:19 AM in reply to Waltz

It's political posturing. I'm sure most if not all of the sponsors of the bill would say, "Oh, this isn't about Obama." But they make the fringe happy with a wink in their direction.

The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

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February 24, 2010 11:47 AM in reply to Tom

Dont you understand? That's not his real birth certificate. No birth certificate showing he was born in the United States can possibly be his real birth certificate. That's what makes it such a archtypical conspiracy theory. There is no evidence that can disprove it because any evidence that appears to disprove it is, in fact, only evidence of the depth and breadth of the conspiracy.

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rynato

February 24, 2010 12:14 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

I shall not believe that Barack Saddam Hussein al-Qaeda Osama bin Laden is a natural-born citizen, unless you libbies provide me with a time machine to transport myself and my wingnut comrades to August 4, 1961 so that we can witness his birth in Hawaii with our own eyes.

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February 24, 2010 12:26 PM in reply to rynato

That sounds reasonable.

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Icon

February 24, 2010 12:28 PM in reply to rynato

Even if we could do that, I bet the wingnuts would say that the flight crew that brought them to Hawaii actually flew them to some other chain of islands in the Pacific and that they pre-emptively decorated those islands Hawaiian-style and transported a few authentic Hawaiians there to create the atmosphere.

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rynato

February 24, 2010 12:32 PM in reply to Icon

Maybe we can find some other tax protester nutjob and have them fly the plane. It's a win-win.

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Icon

February 24, 2010 2:42 PM in reply to rynato

The tax-protester nutjob we find will just be accused of being another member of the con.

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Chilidog

February 24, 2010 2:11 PM in reply to Icon

the plane!, the plane, boss.

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ericf

February 24, 2010 12:49 PM in reply to rynato

I still won't be convinced, because a liberal time machine would probably send me back to watch the birth of the wrong baby. Or it will cross dimensions too and that will be a different earth's Obama. Or maybe I'll be in Hawaii, but that earth's Hawaii won't be part of the United States, so still nothing is proven.

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AJM

February 24, 2010 12:59 PM in reply to ericf

NO ONE YET GRASPS THE DIRE DEPTHS OF THE LIBERAL CONSPIRACY -- THEY REMOVED THE REQUIREMENT IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT YOU SHOW THE LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND REPLACED IT WITH THE REQUIREMENT THAT YOU BE A "NATURAL BORN CITIZEN."

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February 24, 2010 1:42 PM in reply to AJM

This is a joke right? I have no long form birth certificate. I just have a copy of a copy of the form showing I was born.

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Chilidog

February 24, 2010 1:54 PM in reply to DownriverDem

Then you are an illegal alien

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brianm0122

February 24, 2010 5:04 PM in reply to AJM

The problem with that theory is that Democrats are incapable of agreeing with anything.

The ability to form a conspiracy is well beyond their grasp.

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AJM

February 24, 2010 5:39 PM in reply to brianm0122

I'm sorry ... you just flunked Tea-potting 101.

Everyone knows that while Democrats are not effective in any way shape or form, Libruls are evil geniuses and can accomplish anything, whether possible or not, if it advances their evil agenda!

(Which, of course, is why I'm a Librul.)

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February 24, 2010 1:46 PM in reply to rynato

and you and your buddies will stay there, right?

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IowaKid

February 24, 2010 3:49 PM in reply to rynato

LOL that's the best response I have heard all afternoon. Thanks for the good laugh. I needed that.

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February 24, 2010 1:44 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

What exactly are you trying to say?

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AJM

February 24, 2010 2:22 PM in reply to DownriverDem

That birthers will believe anything!

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jjdjjd

February 24, 2010 4:50 PM in reply to AJM

apparently so will the non-birthers.

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AJM

February 25, 2010 12:20 AM in reply to jjdjjd

Some but not all. Obama appears to believe that reThugs will listen to reason.

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BossDrop

February 24, 2010 1:40 PM in reply to Tom

LOL

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mastershake1

February 24, 2010 11:35 AM in reply to Waltz

This is pretty much the 21st century version of the literacy test. In the past, the tests would be applied in completely arbitrary manners, where there was one list of easy words available for white voters, and a second list of extremely technical terms (or sometimes words in foreign languages like Chinese) from which black voters had to read.

The constant way that the goalpost keeps moving with this birth certificate nonsense is exactly the same. When the President presents his birth certificate, they'll demand a non-existent "long form" or demand the original, as opposed to a computer-generated report.

It's interesting that no other President has ever been asked to reveal this type of documentation. I'm guessing most of them in the past didn't have ANY birth certificate at all. Of course, since the current president has dark skin and a funny name, it's easy to whip up resentment by making him seem foreign, so why not play that card.

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Andreams

February 24, 2010 7:05 PM in reply to mastershake1

No other presidential candidate has been asked for their birth certificate but a lot of people protested that Barry Goldwater wasn't eligible to run because Arizona wasn't a state when he was born. At that time, the Arizona rethugs were outraged.

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capitalist_pig

February 24, 2010 1:25 PM in reply to Waltz

Hello ! Hawaii is not even part of real America. Constitution requires that president be born in real america

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Nemo Doe

February 24, 2010 2:13 PM in reply to capitalist_pig

Like the Panama Canal Zone....John McCain's place of birth

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February 24, 2010 1:43 PM in reply to Waltz

Who cares what AZ thinks or passes? They won't vote for Obama anyway. I say give them a big fat finger.

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Marie

February 24, 2010 3:07 PM in reply to DownriverDem

Not for long. The Hispanic population is growing pretty fast in Arizona.

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azfan111

February 24, 2010 10:38 PM in reply to Waltz

The only certificate that has been shown is a "Certificate of Live Birth" and not the original "Birth Certificate". In essence it is a summarized copy of a "birth certificate" and not the official record. Until an official "Birth Certificate" can be shown this question will continue to be raised. If there is no problem with the "Birth Certificate" it does cause one to wonder why the Obama administration will not produce the document.

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February 24, 2010 10:34 AM

Not again. My head hurts. WTF is wrong with these people? Wait that's a rhetorical question.

February 24, 2010 10:36 AM

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jsdc007

Its already been shown and validated by every single state and federal electoral commission in the country.

Look, even if Jesus were to come down from the heavens above and produce it for the Republicans, they'd still say its a fake, denounce Jesus, and make Ronald Reagan their new god.

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Ann Arbor

February 24, 2010 10:47 AM in reply to jsdc007

The new wrinkle is, Arizona would require that the documents be certified by Orly Taitz.

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BeeClone

February 24, 2010 11:11 AM in reply to Ann Arbor

lol

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Rick Jones

February 24, 2010 10:57 AM in reply to jsdc007

I thought Reagan was already a god. And why not just pass a law or Constitutional Amendment and make it absolutely clear: blacks cannot be President.

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AhTrini1

February 24, 2010 11:21 AM in reply to Rick Jones

ditto

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sangsue

February 24, 2010 2:43 PM in reply to Rick Jones

Or even better, remove the Civil Rights Act so blacks can't vote anymore.

I'm sure that's their next step.

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February 24, 2010 12:28 PM in reply to jsdc007

Well, you've never seen Jesus and Ronnie in the same room now have you? Think about it. I'm just sayin'.

February 24, 2010 10:36 AM

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docrocktex

Apparently ignorance mixed with bigotry is an incurable disease.

February 24, 2010 10:45 AM

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jim43

These folks would save themselves a lot of trouble and the state a lot of wasted money if they just went on the thing called the internet and looked at Mr. Obama's actual birth certificate that is posted, I don't know, EVERYWHERE.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

February 24, 2010 10:46 AM

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jsfox

It must be something in the Arizona water. First McCain cannot remember what he did during his presidential campaign and now this bit of lunacy. Result, another state goes off the list of places I might want to live.

February 24, 2010 10:46 AM

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rawresolve

Arizona show us you IQ tests!

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EnnuiDivine

February 24, 2010 10:58 AM in reply to rawresolve

Don't know if you caught Bill Maher's latest special:

"I'll ask to see Obama's birth certificate...when I can see Sarah Palin's high school diploma!"

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AhTrini1

February 24, 2010 11:22 AM in reply to EnnuiDivine

LMAO

February 24, 2010 10:49 AM

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zonk

Forget secession talk, I'm about ready to start a state expulsion movement.

I'll miss the Grand Canyon, but such is life.

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Brian M

February 24, 2010 11:19 AM in reply to zonk

Since the Grand Canyon is a National Park, perhaps it, along with all the revenues from visitors can be retained by the Federal government. Then too, all the federal monies pumped into military and other Federal programs could be saved as well. There would be two less senators to pay...I'm beginning to think balanced budget!

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Virginia

February 24, 2010 1:28 PM in reply to Brian M

Once they are out of the U.S., I'm sure they will turn the Canyon into a biblical theme park, so you can visit it then. Unless you have a hispanic name, in which case you won't be able to get a visa.

February 24, 2010 10:51 AM

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hey norm

Nice to see them dealing with the issues that really matter. I would assume Obama would be grandfathered in.

February 24, 2010 10:53 AM

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IClaudia

Okay, the premise is that the state -- through its legislative branch -- could prevent a candidate for a federal position from being listed on a state ballot? Is that it? Because if so, doesn't that mean that voters in any state could be denied the right to vote for candidates for federal office if their legislatures, perhaps with a majority of a different party, decide that there is some problem with a particular nominee? So my federal voting rights are being denied by a state. This can't be Constitutional.

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cwnidog

February 24, 2010 10:58 AM in reply to IClaudia

Actually, it is a state election. You're not directly voting for President, you're voting for electors that your state will send to vote for President. The fun thing is that in many states, the results of the election count as little more than advice to the electors, who can vote for anyone they please.

The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

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February 24, 2010 11:52 AM in reply to cwnidog

It's a state election, but states can't judge whether federal candidates are qualified to run for office under the federal constitution any more than they can impose term limits on congressmen.

If it were a real issues, it would be decided by Congress through the process of certifying the legitimacy of electoral ballots.

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February 24, 2010 12:37 PM in reply to The Commenter Formerly Known as NCSteve

Good. Just so long as it didn't go to the Supreme Court.

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BeeClone

February 24, 2010 11:24 AM in reply to IClaudia

Come on now don’t go using critical thinking, Arizona is a red state.

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ariseatex

February 24, 2010 12:00 PM in reply to BeeClone

That's the thing; it's not that red. It's very partisan, but if anything the population has become more moderate. Unfortunately, it has closed primaries so incumbents work towards the extremes to win their primary before caring about the general election.

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rynato

February 24, 2010 12:25 PM in reply to IClaudia

doesn't that mean that voters in any state could be denied the right to vote for candidates for federal office if their legislatures, perhaps with a majority of a different party, decide that there is some problem with a particular nominee?

Yes, you could, but if a candidate is not eligible for a particular office, then it's perfectly legitimate to deny you the right to vote for that federal office candidate. (An attorney would probably find fault with that phrasing... you don't have a 'right' to vote for ineligible candidates, and you can't deny a right that doesn't exist in the first place.)

Aaaanyway... an attorney is probably also needed to answer these questions:

*Do states get to decide the eligibility of candidates for federal offices?
*If a candidate is not eligible, what is the remedy? Is it up to parties with standing to sue to prevent their name from appearing on the ballot?

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IClaudia

February 24, 2010 2:17 PM in reply to rynato

But again, doesn't that give a state with a majority of the other party in charge of its legislative/judicial branches (yes, I know, not elected but still possessed of a political persuasion, perhaps?) the power to determine if the opposing party's nominee is legit? That just does not work for me.

And won't it lead to a trade by the other party -- we will declare, in some state with an equal or greater number of electoral votes, that your guy/girl is ineligible?

The entire process could fall apart if this is allowed.

And, while we are on the subject, who has determined a candidate's actual legal eligibility up to now? Has it ever been an issue?

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rynato

February 24, 2010 3:02 PM in reply to IClaudia

Not until a black guy with a Muslim middle name got elected president.

I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

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AJM

February 24, 2010 6:07 PM in reply to rynato

"Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business; but a smaller Number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide."

No specific directions as to who was to judge the qualifications of Presidential candidates are in the Constitution.

February 24, 2010 10:57 AM

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mobilenews12

I excpect nothing less from the state that to the best of my recollection, fought making MLK day a legal holiday tooth and nail, lead by John 'grandpa simpson' Mccain. They only changed their minds when the superbowl was moved from sun devil stadium. But who can forget the LAST state to 'give in' (in 2000) was (drumroll please)...SOUTH CAROLINA! Home to the most shamelessly klan friendly state government in existence.

February 24, 2010 11:00 AM

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Orlando

Oh, fuck Arizona. Let's talk about something important. Like why tax cuts are good for the economy.

February 24, 2010 11:00 AM

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EnnuiDivine

Of course, when the Obama campaign hands over the COLB certified by the Hawaii state health department, the governor of the state, and the ex-governor (and REPUBLICAN) Linda Lingle...they'll still reject it. Just to keep Obama off the ballot and cause the campaign to waste money on a court challenge.

February 24, 2010 11:03 AM

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expat46

Why didn't they come up with this initiative when John "Born in Panama" McCain was running for president.

February 24, 2010 11:04 AM

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The Decider

Their new slogan is "I'll show you mine if you show me yours."

Heh, heh!

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Rick Jones

February 24, 2010 11:14 AM in reply to The Decider

Referring, of course, to birth certificate, "Excuse me while I whip this out."

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CT Voter

February 24, 2010 1:53 PM in reply to Rick Jones

Oh geez! You're killing me!

February 24, 2010 11:13 AM

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CranialRectalLoopback

Where's Governor Retard's retard child's birth certificate. And I'm being satirical which I say retard.

February 24, 2010 11:14 AM

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Mike J

This is the state that did not want to approve of the MLK holiday correct? Not surprised by the racist GOP.

February 24, 2010 11:15 AM

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jron

hayworth must be pushing for them to extend this requirement to senate races...

February 24, 2010 11:15 AM

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Mike J

How many electoral votes do they have? Not enough for me to bow down to those racists!

February 24, 2010 11:15 AM

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dogjudge

Gee, I thought that I learned in grammar school that these types of laws are ILLEGAL.

Paraphrasing. State's can't pass laws that contradict federal laws.

February 24, 2010 11:19 AM

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bbblue

Republicans are living under the totalitarism of ignorance!

February 24, 2010 11:27 AM

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Vermont Devil

Nice headline writing there!

Never mind the fact that 50 as in FIFTY chose to ignore this. It won't pass with these numbers.

Who cares. Let the 40 do a circle jerk with each other.

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drewcypher

February 24, 2010 11:48 AM in reply to Vermont Devil

Didn't you hear? Minorities are the new majorities.

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rynato

February 24, 2010 12:20 PM in reply to Vermont Devil

Arizona has 90 legislators; 60 in the House and 30 in the Senate.

The House is the only chamber (so far) which has voted on this. 40 of the 60 Republicans - not all of the Republicans in the House, but damned near all of them - voted for this.

The Senate has yet to weigh in, so the number could break into the 50s when and if they vote on it.

The story is slightly misleading, as the Legislature as a whole has not yet voted on it; just the House.

February 24, 2010 11:28 AM

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destor23

Then I want to see McCain's certificate. Because I'm into abcient papyrus and cuneiform writing.

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Marinus van der Lubbe

February 24, 2010 12:08 PM in reply to destor23

Thanks for that quip...I had to laugh out loud.

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February 24, 2010 4:39 PM in reply to Marinus van der Lubbe

Hi.

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February 24, 2010 12:40 PM in reply to destor23

Thanks. I just spit organge soda on my screen. :-)

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February 24, 2010 4:39 PM in reply to destor23

Good one.

February 24, 2010 11:31 AM

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Sweet

I am absolutely not a birther and am a big Obama supporter.

But there is a constitutional requirement to being president - 35 years or older and a natural born citizen (whatever that means).

I don't see anything wrong with a state legislature requiring some sort of proof of this in order to be on the presidential ballot. Or proof that someone meets the constitutional requirements for House or Senate (25 yrs and 30 yrs respectively) either.

It could put an end to most of this silliness.

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BeeClone

February 24, 2010 11:42 AM in reply to Sweet

So this will put an end to the silliness? were can I get some of what your smoking. Please remember the birthers are asking for the long form of Obama's birth certificate, what ever that is.

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Morbo

February 24, 2010 11:43 AM in reply to Sweet

The "proof" is the short-form birth certificate Hawaii uses for ALL it's citizens. Period. It was released years ago.

These birther shitheels just can't take "yes" for an answer because they're racist dumb fucks who really just can't accept that a black man won the election.

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Yail Bloor

February 24, 2010 12:24 PM in reply to Morbo

Except it's not referred to as a short-form birth certificate, it's referred to as a birth certificate. As you said, it's the only one Hawaii issues. The "long-form" construct was purpose built for permanent obfuscation.

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February 24, 2010 1:49 PM in reply to Sweet

google it

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Chilidog

February 24, 2010 2:02 PM in reply to Sweet

It could put an end to most of this silliness.

No it won't. It would just encourage it.

February 24, 2010 11:35 AM

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Leftflank

And the circus continues. How dare Obama redistribute ciizenship.

February 24, 2010 11:38 AM

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KdNicewanger

So, the AZ legislature is admitting that up until now, they'd put anyone's name on the ballot with first verifying that that person is who he says he is?

"They are who we thought they were!"

February 24, 2010 11:43 AM

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WaitWut?

Someone, please...get me outta this state.

You have no idea how backward this place is. 18" of snow...no plows. 1/2" of snow...plowed twice. They want to charge fees for the public library...to hire more cops. The dumbest state in the union...cut school funding and fire teachers. Not enough jails...close some and then have deputies drive inmates 80 miles to the nearest one and then...build new ones. Concealed weapons are allowed...in bars. This is just in my county/city. We also have the wondrous Arpaio...that many whackjobs want as Governor. In my town Hayworth is God and McCain is a liberal.

YEE HAW! Let's go back to them WILD WEST days, yessirreeeeeee!!!

And...no. We don't want Arizona to secede. California needs to invade and kick these morons out. Make them move to Texas.

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stillidealistic

February 24, 2010 11:58 AM in reply to WaitWut?

If you're hoping for CA to save you I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you...our state gov. is so messed up, we're circling the drain; laying off cops and teachers right and left and our reps refuse to work together to fix anything. We're too busy trying to keep our noses above water to even notice y'all are whacked! I only know because my crazy armed to the teeth birther uncle lives there.

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WaitWut?

February 24, 2010 12:14 PM in reply to stillidealistic

Hey...yer our only hope. Can't depend on Nevada or Colorado. Illinois is too damned far and couldn't afford the gas money to get here. New Mexico doesn't seem to care enough about much of anything.

I wonder if your crazy uncle is one of the one's that I hear complaining that our local gun store keeps running out of ammo. They're arming themselves for "the" revolution here. Not kidding. I have to keep reminding them that Arizona liberals are armed, as well. In fact, you could say that between my husband and me, we're armed to the teeth.

The only thing I have noticed is the dwindling of the Tea Party, here. I think they all gave up and just joined one of the local militias. Is that the proper plural of militia?

February 24, 2010 11:56 AM

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njlib

This is bullshit. I recently needed to produce a BC for security clearance reasons. All I had was a cert from the catholic hospital I was born in that had nothing official, no stamps, nothing. It had a pretty picture of the Virgin Mary though. Anyway, that wasn't enough for a security clearance, it was enough tp play football though (directed to JD Hayworth). Anyway I called the state of PA and in a few days I had one with a seal, freshly printed up and signed by the current governor. An original birth certificate is a worthless piece of shit document, the state approval is all that matters

February 24, 2010 12:08 PM

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dogjudge

sweet,

Obama has met the FEDERAL requirements for becoming President with his current birth certificate. That birth certificate is legal in all 50 states and in any court.

If I went to court in Arizona, the only reason that I would have to show a birth certificate is if "probable cause" could be shown that I didn't have a birth certificate. If "probable cause" couldn't be shown, then I have no requirement to show my birth certificate.

I've actually got TWO LEGAL birth certificates that are different. Imagine what that would do to Arizona?

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baba2nde

February 24, 2010 12:36 PM in reply to dogjudge

Neither reason nor shame works with this crowd, or there would not be 290 bills collecting dust in the Senate after passage in the House.

Ridicule, may be. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-11-2009/reform-madness---white-minority

February 24, 2010 12:31 PM

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rynato

Please quit harshing on our entire state, folks. I bet a lot of you are up to your necks and snow and would love to be here right now, it will be 70 degrees today.

However, down at the Capitol, we have some real idiots. One of them just proposed a bill to post the 10 Commandments at the entrance to the Capitol. They've mortgaged several of the state's buildings, you probably saw that on The Daily Show.

It's the silly season now, where these clowns feel they have to remind voters who they are, and throw red meat to their most partisan supporters (especially if they have primary competition).

Expect more silliness like this between now and the fall, and don't be so smug that this couldn't happen in your state!

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petitepete

February 24, 2010 2:01 PM in reply to rynato

Rynato, it has already happened in my state. I live in Arkansas and I am ashamed of how racist and backward this state is. The most ignorant people in the country are concentrated in this state. Had Hillary Clinton won the democratic nomination she would have blown McCain away in Arkansas. She won the primary with 70% of the vote. But when Obama won the nomination, McCain's poll numbers shot through the roof and remained there. This state is unbelievably, and openly, racist. And IGNORANT!!!!! If my children weren't settled here with their families I would most definitely move to another state. There are so many others I would much rather live in. But, I want to be close to my children and new grandchildren so I will stay put. For now.

February 24, 2010 12:37 PM

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Peter Principle

The idea comes from Skull Valley Republican Judy Burges.

That should read: Empty Skull Valley.

February 24, 2010 12:44 PM

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ejg3

Why am I thinking that Wiley Coyote has been cloned to comprise the Republican Caucus in Arizona?

February 24, 2010 12:47 PM

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Seafarer

If they pass this, it's legal checkmate for the birthers.

They're allowed to do this.

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Chilidog

February 24, 2010 2:09 PM in reply to Seafarer

I hope they do pass it. It will be highly embarassing for them in the long run.

February 24, 2010 1:02 PM

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Lono65

I really wish I didn’t have to be ashamed of my home state, but we’ve got some real colostomy bags in the state legislature who seem intent upon embarrassing us.

As for Hayworth, I was hopeful that exorcising him once would do the trick (he was my Congressman until we got Democrat Harry Mitchell elected to take his place). But I suppose we didn't bury him deep enough to keep him from clawing his way back up. I'm not a McCain fan, but between the two, there's really no contest. Kyl and Hayworth? Ugh.

February 24, 2010 1:25 PM

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jonez

But the state of Hawaii has already produced it. Are they saying they do not believe one of the states in this great nation of ours? Arizona has always been a weird state. If they didn't want a MLK day, you know for sure they don't want a black president.

February 24, 2010 1:34 PM

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punkdavid

This is all Obama's fault. He took away our awesome Democratic governor and left us with the wingnuts in charge of the whole state government. This bill would never have come this far if Janet were still in charge.

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February 24, 2010 1:50 PM in reply to punkdavid

I have a good friend who works for the AZ government who agrees with you 100%. She would love to move.

February 24, 2010 1:52 PM

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Robert Feeley

It's not the BIRTH, it's the CONCEPTION that matters, and this has now been confirmed:

http://stupidassnews.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/witness-obama-was-conceived-in-u-s/

Have a great day! :-)

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February 24, 2010 2:01 PM

If the Arizona legislature has anything to say about it, President Barack Obama may have to show the state his birth certificate before seeking reelection in 2012.

Want to bet Obama will not seek reelection as our Dear Leader?

Thank GOD for the good people of Arizona to ask this usurper for his BC! Howard Dean should have demanded Obama's BC before the DNC and maybe Philip Berg (Democrat) would have never started this birther nonsense to begin with.

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Chilidog

February 24, 2010 3:24 PM in reply to DugFmJamul

I'm sorry, but you are not legally entitled to call him a usurper. Only Christpher-Earl: Strunk is entitled to call him that.

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February 24, 2010 4:42 PM in reply to DugFmJamul

You are a fucking freak of nature!!!

February 24, 2010 2:15 PM

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petitepete

His birth certificate HAS been produced, verified by the Republican Governor of Hawaii and posted online for anyone who cares to look at it. If these hillbillies were present for the birth they would swear their eyes were lying to them. I say let these "legislators" pass this law and reveal to the world how ignorant they are. They are laughingstocks and too damned stupid to even know it. They are just sad and worthy of pity except for the fact that these people actually vote.

And, given the choice between McCain and Hayworth, as much as I hate to say it, I'd rather have McCain. We've seen Hayworth in action before and he makes Tom DeLay look like a pussycat. He is completely unhinged.

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February 24, 2010 3:00 PM in reply to petitepete

petitiepete wrote: His birth certificate HAS been produced, verified by the Republican Governor of Hawaii and posted online for anyone who cares to look at it

Nope, his long form BC has never been verified and the state of Hawaii has given BCs to Chinese citizens before stating they have been born in Hawaii around the same time frame as Obama's birth, just a consequence?

The question is not whether Obama is a U.S. citizen, but is Obama a natural born citizen? There is nothing wrong with the State of AZ to demand Obama present his long form BC to the State of Elections Office for verification...I wouldn't have a problem with that demand, why would you?

Why would anyone spend close to 2 million dollars NOT to produce their BC in a court of law when asked? I wouldn't, would you?

petitiepete wrote: And, given the choice between McCain and Hayworth, as much as I hate to say it, I'd rather have McCain

McCain has been a progressive republican most of his time in the Senate and that is why the good people of AZ should vote for Hayworth instead!

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Chilidog

February 24, 2010 3:19 PM in reply to DugFmJamul

The question is not whether Obama is a U.S. citizen, but is Obama a natural born citizen?

Since he was born in Hawaii, the answer is yes.

Satisfied?

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February 24, 2010 3:23 PM in reply to Chilidog

No...Why would anyone spend close to 2 million dollars NOT to produce their long form BC in a court of law when asked?

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AJM

February 24, 2010 5:56 PM in reply to DugFmJamul

Because he recognizes that it is a racist demeaning request made of him because he is black when the fact that McCain was born in Panama was totally ignored by all the idiots who are now claiming that they are so concerned about qualifications.

Note: the requirement is that President be a natural born citizen of the United States -- not that he have a 'long form' birth certificate.

No has every presented any proof that he was born elsewhere unless you count the Orly Taitz forgeries which I would guess you bought into.

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Chilidog

February 24, 2010 3:23 PM in reply to DugFmJamul

Why would anyone spend close to 2 million dollars NOT to produce their BC in a court of law when asked? I wouldn't, would you?

You are behind the times, I heard that with Orly Taitz's latest appeal to the U.N., the amount of money that the President has spent is now over 3.8 trillion dollars and counting.

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February 24, 2010 3:25 PM in reply to Chilidog

Come on you know that's BS, answer the question honestly....

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Bnad

February 24, 2010 4:18 PM in reply to DugFmJamul

If Obama ever released a hospital birth certificate ("long form" is meaningless as each state has different terminology and Hawaii has only one official form of birth certificate, but I think the hospital certificate, with the baby's footprints and the doctor's signature, is what the birthers are claiming to want)...
it would be like pouring gasoline on a fire. The doctor (if still alive after 49 years) and/or his family would be hounded and trashed like Graeme Frost to the Midge Hough'th power. The person who was the head of the hospital's obgyn department in 1961 and his family would get the same treatment. Wingnuts would demand to see current ink impressions of Obama's feet for an endless speculative circle jerk on foot development. Claims would be made that that doctor couldn't have been in Hawaii then, that he wasn't yet licensed then, that he didn't even exist, and copious evidence to the contrary would be ignored.
The wingnut goal is to keep the controversy going and delegitimize the President, and I thought baba2nde's link gets right to the heart of the matter.

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Chilidog

February 24, 2010 4:30 PM in reply to Bnad

but I think the hospital certificate, with the baby's footprints and the doctor's signature, is what the birthers are claiming to want)...

Said document is not a legal document and would not be admissible as legal proof. The state certified document which has been released is the only legal document here.

Why do birthers think that they are above the law?

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February 24, 2010 4:43 PM in reply to Bnad

In other words, no matter what the hell he did it would never be enough. Fuck everyone those assholes

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February 24, 2010 7:02 PM in reply to Bnad

My point is this birther nonsense should have been taken cared of by Obama himself before the DNC, instead Obama refused to acknowledge Philp Berg's wishes and Obama refused to answer any of the BC lawsuits filed against him to prove his citizenship status with evidence concerning his origin of birth and judges have refused to listen to any evidence concerning his natural born citizenship status.

Until the Obama BC issue is settled in a court of law one way or the other, this issue will never fully go away!

Remember a Democrat Philip Berg started to ignited this issue with fire and Hillary or McCain could have extinguished the flames by being more vocal about why they believed Obama was a natural born citizen during the 2008 election cycle, but they both let the coals of doubt simmer under this pot of birther stew.

I just think it's hilarious how Liberals get so stirred up just by someone suggesting Obama should present his long form BC before a court of law for validation to answer his critics, that's all!

Thanks for making me laugh out loud today!

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winddelay

February 25, 2010 9:23 AM in reply to DugFmJamul

Obama was asked to show his birth certificate prior to the election (A presidential first). He requested a copy and made it available. You wanted the one in his baby book with the coffee rings and the mustard stains though... "Computer printout!" you cried. "I do not believe in such things!"

Certain parties then said that the document was not valid when in fact it was, and is, and will continue to be.

And you are one of a number that still cannot accept that fact. Should he choose to run again, the State of Arizona will accept that COLB as prima facie evidence of the birth of a man who is natural born citizen.

To counter your argument paragraph for paragraph;

In May of 08, both McCain and Obama were under fire by pundits as to their Presidential eligibility. Obama was asked to show his birth certificate (McCain was not), and so he did. A number of pundits decried it as invalid, despite the fact that it was valid. They filed a number of court cases citing as evidence their outrage, and nothing more. Those cases were summarily dismissed. Outrage at nothing you can put your finger on is not a valid argument in a court of law. A number of birthers were dismayed at this fact, and the fact that judges will dismiss charges filed without evidence of any wrongdoing. They must have been activist judges, they tell themselves.

You want the issue to be in court, but the only court cases filed have been Orly (Yarly) Taitz's 2 proven fake documents, and 1 baseless accusation, and Philip Berg's "I have no evidence of wrongdoing but I'm interested" argument that was, surprise, not found to be legally an actual argument. Yeah making or using false documents in a court of law may be a crime, and not having a case can lead to summary dismissal. Welcome to the real world.

Hillary looked into Obama's qualifications. I don't doubt McCain did as well. McCain said Obama was qualified, Hillary did her "I dunno, mebbe" bullshit. Both were trying to beat him... They were avoiding non-issues.

And yes, we get stirred up because he did present what he was asked to, and you didn't, don't and will not accept it. You are requesting a potentially legally unacceptable document to fill in for a document that's legally acceptable, for any government function, even to use to file for re-election in Arizona circa 2012. It took an act of congress to make McCain acceptable to be president, but the prima facie evidence of our presidents birth is a fabrication in your minds.

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Chilidog

February 24, 2010 4:28 PM in reply to DugFmJamul

You anwer this question: What proof do you have that President Obama has spent any money on this nonsesne, let alone 2 million dollars?

You know you are just pulling that number out of your ass, admitt it.

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February 24, 2010 6:28 PM in reply to Chilidog

Why don't you admit that you would not spend a dime to not show your BC in a court of law?

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winddelay

February 25, 2010 9:53 AM in reply to DugFmJamul

Because the person(s) with the case had no argument. If you brought a garbage case against ME, I would defend myself.

What do you feel those cases had in the way of a real argument? Legal argument, not birther argument. If you can't cite something real, YOU are one of the ones clogging the courts with grandstanding, and causing money to be wasted. You don't have an argument, but you still think you have a case.

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February 25, 2010 1:23 PM in reply to winddelay

Because the person(s) with the case had no argument. If you brought a garbage case against ME, I would defend myself.

Wrong, I would defend myself by giving up my long form birth certificate for validation.

Wrong again, the Court said to Berg "Berg, you have no standing in this court to demand to see Obama's birth certificate."

The Court's ruling in effect is telling "We The People" have no right to validate our Presidential candidates for constitutional qualifications. I find that ruling contemptuous to "We The People"!

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Marinus van der Lubbe

February 24, 2010 4:50 PM in reply to DugFmJamul

Ok dickhead...my daughter was born in the State of Hawaii and that is the ONLY form you get. You dont get some long form, and as youre ignorant of any and all things done in Hawaii, shut the fuck up.

February 24, 2010 2:49 PM

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UnionJack

Yes, it is really stupid and a waste of everyone's time. However, it is not necessarily unconstitutional for a state to require (usually just a self-certification of) eligibility as a component of the state's "ballot access" laws. Elections for federal office are all administered by the States (for Pres., see Art. II, Sec. 1, cl. 2), and the states control "ballot access" subject to constitutional requirements of the 14th (and 1st) Amendment, for example, not to discriminate by viewpoint, race, etc., etc. (Storer v. Brown, 415 U.S. 724 (1974); Jenness v. Fortson, 403 U.S. 431 (1971)). In at least 2 legal cases, the courts have upheld the discretionary authority of the Secretary of State NOT to list on the ballot a person who was not "eligible" for the federal office (in one case in California Eldrige Cleaver was not yet 35 -- Cleaver v Jordan, Case no. 7838 (Calif. Supreme Court, Sep. 26, 1968), cert. denied, 393 U.S. 810 (1968))). Many states also have "protest" procedures to challenge eligibility. (Think if Gov. Arnold tried to get on the ballot for President.) If a Sec. of State denied access to the ballot on these (or any other grounds), then the candidate could challenge that in court as many, many of the "ballot access" cases have been (usually about independent candidates for President not getting enough signatures). Of course, Congress has the final say as to one who makes it that far, as the joint session counts and certifies the electoral votes and could, in theory, reject elecoral votes for one not "qualified," as they did for 3 electoral votes from Georgia given to a candidate for Pres. who had died (Horace Greeley).

February 24, 2010 4:10 PM

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sherifffruitfly

Really the only reasonable response to them is "Fuck you, bigots".

February 24, 2010 4:59 PM

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fred17

"stupid is as stupid does" Forrest Gump

February 24, 2010 5:02 PM

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RobNYNY1957

Arizona would probably be compelled to accept a COLB that Hawaii confirmed was genuine under principles of full faith and credit and/or comity. Arizona is not the judge of what a valid Hawaiian COLB is. Similar to drivers licenses, divorces, etc.

February 24, 2010 5:03 PM

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RobNYNY1957

Arizona would probably be compelled to accept a COLB that Hawaii confirmed was genuine under principles of full faith and credit and/or comity. Arizona is not the judge of what a valid Hawaiian COLB is. Similar to drivers licenses, divorces, etc.

February 24, 2010 5:56 PM

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sbv

obama to arizona - drop dead!

February 24, 2010 7:58 PM

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jonez

We've got the best law enforcement and intelligence gathering organizations in the world in the FBI, CIA and Secret Service, not to mention our crack state and local forces. If there were problems with the President's BC, we'd know by now. Besides, if Obama came up with a long form and provided it (in person) on all the networks and news outlets, they still wouldn't believe him. Maybe we should just give Arizona back to Mexico, then add Puerto Rico as a state so we won't have to change the flag.

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frank44

February 24, 2010 9:29 PM in reply to jonez

Wonder why Arizona did not seem to have a problem with Barry Goldwater back in 1964 ??? (he was not a "natural born" candidate because he was born in the Arizona Territory)

February 25, 2010 7:44 AM

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winddelay

You know whats really stupid about all this? The document Obama will show if he does run again, is the same COLB he's already shown. The "long form birth certificate" or a photocopied original is not a valid document for getting a DL in most states, or getting a passport or visa. This is due to regulations enacted post 9/11, for reasons you can probably understand.

The COLB is what you are now issued, and it's prima facie evidence of birth. While it is a good regulation, one that every state should enact, it doesn't change the fact that Obama HAS shown his birth certificate, not only to the people he was required to to verify his eligibility, but to the entire free world. And that's more than any president prior was asked to, or chose to show.

Said document was verified by multiple sources, who confirm the information contained is correct. Said information is all that is required. Birthers seem to believe there is some bonus extra information that is their utmost imperative to unearth. They can't really explain what they think it might be though, they just know they want to see it. If you are unfamiliar with prima facie and burden of proof, just understand that the burden lies on the accuser. As it stands though, unless they come up with something solid, they have as much chance of getting a court order to riffle through his underwear drawer.

February 25, 2010 9:03 AM

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RobNYNY1957

Goldwater's parents were both US citizens, so his place of birth is irrelevant. In any case, persons born in US territories are natural born US citizens (think Washington, DC, Puerto Rico, pre-statehood Hawaii and Alaska).