
Retired Marine Corps Gen. John "Jack" Sheehan suggested today that European militaries were weakened after the fall of the Soviet Union because they allowed openly gay soldiers to serve.
Sheehan, who commanded NATO forces in the 90s, was testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee today, and said that European armies were weakened because of policies that would "socialize their military," and peacekeeping efforts "that led to a force that was ill-equipped to go to war."
He referenced the Dutch military's supposed failure to intervene in a massacre in Bosnia in 1995, and said that at the time the Dutch force "was understrength, poorly led, and the Serbs came into town, handcuffed the soldiers to telephone poles, marched the Muslims off and executed them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) asked, "Did the Dutch tell you it was because there were gay soldiers there?"
"Yes," Sheehan replied. "They included that as part of the problem."
Watch:
Sailormarlowe
March 18, 2010 6:04 PM
Part of the problem? Probably the main problem. Who wants to fight in a military command where you feel no sympathy or fellowship with your so-called "comrades", and the enemy seems less disgusting & dangerous than the perv at your elbow?
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SilenceEqualsConsent
March 18, 2010 6:58 PM in reply to Sailormarlowe
"Main problem", Sailormarlow? Give me a break. Think about what you and the retired General are saying. Were all of the Dutch military personnel in the Serb area gay? Was the majority of the Dutch military gay? The answer to both questions is no. The Dutch failure was one of leadership not because there were some gays in the military. They are using gays as a scapegoat for their own failures in leadership.
As I noted below, the argument that gays weaken the military doesn't hold water. Look at the Israeli example. They allow gays to openly serve and they have probably the best and most effective military on earth.
Combat military personnel will tell you that the only thing they really care about is will the guys to their left and right have their back. They sure don't think about sexual orientation in a firefight.
You both sound like certifiable homophobes.
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libdevil
March 19, 2010 12:38 AM in reply to SilenceEqualsConsent
I certainly agree with you that openly gay soldiers serving doesn't diminish readiness, but the example of the Israeli military might be off. It's hard to be ineffective when you're using the most advanced military aircraft and armored vehicles to blow up apartment buildings, schools, and mosques guarded by light infantry at best, unarmed civilians at worst.
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jsdc007
March 18, 2010 11:29 PM in reply to Sailormarlowe
The words of a fat, indolent, intellectually lazy sissy who hides behind a computer screen.
You aint half the man a drag queen is, let alone a gay soldier.
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SchoolyT
March 19, 2010 9:39 AM in reply to Sailormarlowe
That's totally ridiculous. Maybe if the kind General knew a bit more about his own branch of the service, he might not make such an ignorant comment. I served in the USMC over two decades ago and it was widely known that there were a few bars off-base that catered to gay clientele, mostly Marines. Everyone who serves, straight or gay, is dedicated to defending our country. Whether anyone was straight or gay never entered into the equation. The notion that gays are sissies is a ridiculous stereotype, so it's no surprise that those gay servicemembers that were in his midst went totally under his radar. Even if they were allowed to serve openly, they are serving voluntarily and could be discharged promptly if they aren't dedicated to their assignments, whether straight or gay. Hell, the USMC was having enough problems at the time I served coping with the transformation of the old Corps to a more modern Corps that involved the use of advanced technologies.
With all due respect, this General is a typical chest-beater with the intelligence of a rock that clings to the old Corps he knew and loved. But the unwillingness to change in the face of the need to change and adapt is not a wise approach on many matters facing the USMC and our military services in general.
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farnsworth
March 19, 2010 11:29 AM in reply to Sailormarlowe
Sailorboy makes everything about sex. Bachmann and Palin are sexy, so they are good. Maddow is not sexy so he is bad. Gay soldiers are bad. He thinks calling me "fagsworth" is a cutting insult.
Methinks he doth protest too much.
The only thing to do with a pathetic closet case like this is laugh at him.
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farnsworth
March 19, 2010 11:31 AM in reply to farnsworth
Slip of the fingers there (oh no!).
Should have said Maddow is not sexy so "he" is bad.
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oleeb
March 18, 2010 6:19 PM
This guy looks like a fully actualized human being totally unburdened by repressed sexuality doesn't he? LMFAOROTFL!
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Garrigus Carraig
March 18, 2010 6:31 PM
You know what else weakened European militaries after the fall of the Soviet Union?
NATO.
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aikbay
March 18, 2010 6:35 PM
Just wondering when we'll find John"Jack"Sheehan pulled over for a DUI coming back from a night out at the local gay hangout with a RuPaul wannabe as his passenger. Or, when a few of his Marine underlings come out about how he made passes at them? Just wonderin'.
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SilenceEqualsConsent
March 18, 2010 6:42 PM
The argument doesn't hold water. What about the Israeli military? They are probably the best and most effective military in the world - and they allow gays to serve openly.
The problem with the Dutch was a problem of leadership and had nothing to do with gays being in the military. Again, look at Israel.
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tiowally
March 18, 2010 7:15 PM in reply to SilenceEqualsConsent
And who pays for "the best and most effective military in the world"? Oh, yeah.
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lousgirl84
March 19, 2010 6:41 PM in reply to tiowally
HI CHEE-O
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midnight rambler
March 18, 2010 7:38 PM
Well, you have to compare it to how the Dutch Army performed so admirably in WWII when they didn't have any gays.
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farnsworth
March 19, 2010 11:39 AM in reply to midnight rambler
Only if you want to promote a false comparison.
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psyclone
March 18, 2010 8:03 PM
So, even if we were to allow Sheehan's one example (which is highly dubious at best, given how poorly referenced it is), he is citing only the Dutch army. And yet, that conveniently gets extrapolated to all European militaries!
The simpler explanation is that Sheehan is just another one of the old-guard homophobes who is still looking for any reason to bash gays, without looking like that's precisely what he's doing. Which then makes me think he has some of his own personal issues that he hasn't quite figured out yet.
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Sir Craig
March 18, 2010 8:44 PM
Thank goodness Sheehan is retired. This means that, as an active duty serviceman, it is no longer necessary for me to pretend to respect this putz. Sheehan is a fossil who couldn't come up with anything more original than this pathetic chestnut straight out of Perkins' Focus on the Patriarchy handbook.
I mean really, did the Dutch just come right out and say "And by the way, teh gheys totally sapped our means and will to fight" as Sheehan says? I will venture to say "Not bloody likely".
And yes, even if such an event did take place in Sheehan's universe, to extrapolate what happened with the Dutch military (whose total military expenditures in 2009 equated to $11.2B, or 1.65% of its GDP, versus America's $664B or 4.6% GDP for 2010) with the rest of Europe's military is nothing short of retarded.
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mrut
March 18, 2010 10:50 PM
Sheehan is so stupid, it's a mystery why Congress called him to testify.
He must feel flattered--retired and all, but still asked to dispense the wisdom of his prejudices to the Congress. Can you imagine the headlines if Levin had accidentally asked this idiot if Black servicemembers degraded the US military? His moronic response would have knocked the healthcare reform vote out of the headlines.
He's a dud from the most careerist era in our military.
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jsdc007
March 18, 2010 11:30 PM
Now watch Tootsie McCain latch onto the words of this retard, even though the current top brass in the military say otherwise.
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GTFOOH
March 19, 2010 10:49 AM
Being a homophobe is one thing. But to suggest this is the reason for massacre in Bosnia is beyond the pale. Why anyone would think this ass has any credibility is beyond me!
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Matt Jones
March 19, 2010 11:50 AM
You should see what the queers are doing - TO THE SOIL. ;)
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ericf
March 19, 2010 12:23 PM
The Dutch military says Sheehan is full of it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8575717.stm
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FutureShock999
March 19, 2010 12:34 PM
Neil Stephenson wrote it best in Cryptonomicon: "Shaftoe knew that some of the China Marines had quite a few young boys hanging around their quarters than was probably necessary to keep their boots shined. But who has time to worry about what the guy next to you does in the sack, when you might miss the opportunity to hit a Nip squad with a flamethrower?"
In short, concentrate on the job of war, and you should be too busy to worry about what bars everyone goes to, and with whom, on R&R. As long as your comrades have mental and physical toughness to do the job, the rest is just a piss really - and that doesn't change regardless of their orientation. If your training doesn't drop out those that lack the basic mettle to be a soldier, THEN you have a problem - but let's address that for what it is, rather than hiding behind a smokescreen.
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lousgirl84
March 19, 2010 3:36 PM
This guy is a liar as was proved today by the response from the Dutch. He should be stripped of his pension and his stripes.
This guy had to go back to Vietnam to tell some story about assault in a foxhole!!! He's a fricking homophobe and a politcal hack
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lousgirl84
March 19, 2010 3:38 PM
This guy is a liar as was proved today by the response from the Dutch. He should be stripped of his pension and his stripes.
This guy had to go back to Vietnam to tell some story about assault in a foxhole!!! He's a fricking homophobe and a politcal hack
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lousgirl84
March 19, 2010 3:39 PM
Sorry for the dbl post. tpm is slow...
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Tosh
May 31, 2010 4:21 AM
The argument doesn't hold water. What about the Israeli military? They are probably the best and most effective military in the world - and they allow gays to serve openly.
The problem with the Dutch was a problem of leadership and had nothing to do with gays being in the military. Again, look at Israel.
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